Follow Your Different

029 Legendary Marketing Lightning Strike Dave Gerhardt Drift

Legendary Marketing Lightning Strike Dave Gerhardt Drift Follow Your Different™ Podcast

In this follow-up to Episode 20 with David Cancel (DC) the founder and CEO of Drift,  Christopher talks with Dave Gerhardt (DG), the head of marketing for Drift and fellow podcaster.

They are co-authors a of brand new, number one best-selling book called Conversational Marketing: How The World’s Fastest Growing Companies use Chatbots to Generate Leads.

In this episode, we unpack how Drift is designing a new category and we go deep into the strategies and tactics Drift is using and how they executed this most legendary lightning strike centered around the new book.

If you’re into marketing, there’s a ton of gold in this episode. 

  • You’ll get insight into how to get a massive amount of attention for your category, brand and point of view.
  • How to execute an approach called the Multiplier Effect so that each component of your marketing mix multiplies the value of the other components.
  • How to make your company and your category undeniable. 
  • And, how to do my favorite kind of marketing which causes your competition to have emergency board meetings.

“Whether the (category) name is sexy, good or not, you have to name it.” – Dave Gerhardt

 Almost two years ago, Dave was introduced to Christopher through his book after Sequoia invested in Drift, Pat Grady sent him five copies of his book Play Bigger and said he needed to read it. Dave was blown away that how much was in the book was what they were doing without really talking about it. Play Bigger clarified what they were working on.

Hurdles to Overcome

The team at Drift knew they were building a category but didn’t’ really know about category design. During their efforts to write the book and get a publisher, Dave and David discovered that thing, that category that they were building meant nothing until they named it.

“In order for us to win, we need to elevate the category of Conversational Marketing.” – Dave Gerhardt

They had a little traction but not enough. They needed a following, big investors, and the social proof. Fast forward to early 2018. They spent the year writing the book and published on January 30, 2019. After a month, it’s a top 20 business book in the US and in the top 1.5% of all books being sold on Amazon. 

Why Competition is Good

In order for the book to succeed, Dave wants competitors and people in the conversational marketing space. They don’t want people to just think of Drift when they think of conversational marketing. 

Dave compares it to a part of Play Bigger. Apple didn’t invent the tablet but they created a category that elevated it. That’s Drift’s goal; to elevate the category of conversational marketing.

To hear more about Dave’s legendary marketing strike, download and listen to the episode.

Dave Gerhardt Bio:

Dave Gerhardt is a B2B marketing leader, brand builder, and copywriter. 
As VP of Marketing of Drift, he’s helped grow Drift from $0 to over eight-figures in revenue in just two years, and his work has been featured in 100+ news sites and publications, including Forbes, Fortune, Inc., Entrepreneur, TechCrunch, and Harvard Business Review.

He also co-hosts the popular Seeking Wisdom podcast with Drift CEO David Cancel, and he’s the co-author of the definitive book on Conversational Marketing.

Podcast: Seeking Wisdom
iTunes Seeking Wisdom

We hope you enjoyed Dave Gerhardt on this episode of Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on FacebookTwitterInstagram and subscribe on iTunes!

027 David Osborn Wealth Can’t Wait

David Osborn Wealth Can’t Wait Follow Your Different™ Podcast

How do you overcome a compounded fear of failure to become legendary? On today’s episode, author, entrepreneur, and real estate investor David Osborn joins us in a conversation about making money, building capital, and so much more.

“You go to work for capital so your capital can eventually go to work for you.” – David Osborn

Thinking Big, Not Delusional

David started out as a realtor, working under his mom’s team for three years. Over time, he realized he no longer wanted to sell so he ventured out into setting up franchises. With the right company, time and work ethic as well as a dash of mistakes and failures, he and his team have sold billions.

When you focus on the delta of where you are and where you want to be, it becomes clear that making the first million is way too hard. But it’s just as important to think massively big, and not delusional, to get started. It takes so much longer and harder than people can imagine and be willing to admit, after all.

“People always look at the credit and the money that an entrepreneur makes and they way underestimate the amount of risk and amount of failure.” – David Osborn

An Idiot Prior to Success

David first opened up a franchise in 1996, and it took ten long years before he could make money. It was a sweet two years, until the massive crash of 2008. Luckily enough, he had a great company to support him through it. But not all entrepreneurs are on equal footing.

An entrepreneur that has to scramble all the way up will look like an idiot for ten years before they get rewarded. And sometimes, the rewards could be more than they probably should get.

“The reason is you spent those ten years where every day there’s a chance you could have nothing the next day.” – David Osborn

Overcoming Fear Through Crazy

It takes experiencing hurt and failure for fear to manifest. We find punishment, pain, and psychological difficulty so aversive that we steer clear of ladders going up.

Even the most successful entrepreneurs get afraid. But it’s finding the crazy force to drive you through the journey that spells all the difference.

To hear more about David’s views on free will and capital building, download and listen to the episode.


After sticking out his thumb and traveling the world, David returned home to Austin, Texas broke and unemployed, at the age of 26. Though his travels may not have yielded wealth, they instilled the key motivation that he brings to every part of his life to create it — freedom.

Because to have everything you ever wanted takes the opportunity to design your life and believe it can happen.

Through this intention, David began to test his entrepreneurial merits alongside his business-partner mom in the world of real estate. The results were nothing short of remarkable. In less than 10 years, David would go on to build one of the top real estate brokerages in the world, founding over 50 companies.

Yet, more than anything else, the inherent freedom derived from his success awards him the time to focus on the importance on what matters most: being a proud father of two beloved daughters, a son, and husband to the wonderful and talented Traci Osborn.

Today, still rooted in his boundless sense of adventure, David continues to travel the world not only to be enlightened by new experiences but to share his insight and expertise with others so they, too, can truly be free.


Wealth Can’t Wait – Amazon

Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow – Amazon

Happiest Countries – Forbes

We hope you enjoyed David Osborn on this episode of Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on iTunes!

026 Fuck Hustle w/ Christopher Lochhead

Fuck Hustle w/ Christopher Lochhead Follow Your Different™ Podcast

Why is hustle utter bullshit? On today’s episode, Christopher talks about the number one piece of entrepreneurial advice that most of us hear today. A topic that he’s written a blog for, Christopher shares seven reasons why we need to fuck hustle.

No Shit, Sherlock

Most entrepreneurial porn stars would pontificate the mentality that we need to hustle all day and every day. But “hustle” isn’t the most important word ever or a badge or wristband to show off. This evangelization of the idea that hustling is the way to go is dangerous and it needs to stop.

For one, hustle is a “No shit, Sherlock.” We all know that if you want to be successful in business or any other domain, you will need to work hard. We all heard of Malcolm Gladwell’s 10,000-hour rule, and success takes hard work.

“That’s why we respect people who achieve great things—because of the simple fact that they had to overcome stuff and do something that most people aren’t willing to do.” – Christopher Lochhead

You’re Not a Hamster

Second, hamsters can go round and round in a wheel all day long without going anywhere and be happy doing it. Some people confuse activity and results. And we need to ask ourselves an important question:

“Does the work I’m doing produce meaningful results produce value or am I just spinning my wheel?” – Christopher Lochhead

The most legendary people develop a sixth sense around things that are going to move the needle in the areas they care about. They evaluate whether the levers are going to move things forward. And they’re constantly figuring out what things they can use to leverage what they need to produce wanted results, as opposed to just spinning the wheel.

Work Smarter, Not Harder

Third, instead of hustling, entrepreneurs must preach working smarter. It’s pointless to work yourself into oblivion. It pays off to learn beyond what’s taught in school, and this includes horizontal income, which he talks about with Pat Hiban on a podcast episode.

“I like to say that horizontal income is money that can roll in while you’re laying down.” – Christopher Lochhead

To hear the four other reasons why we all need to stuff it and fuck hustle, download and listen to the episode.


Fuck Hustle: 7 Reasons Hustle is Bad Advice

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Fuck Hustle Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on iTunes!

025 Courage to be Different w/ Vineet Jain, Founder/CEO Egnyte

Courage to be Different w/ Vineet Jain, Founder/CEO Egnyte Follow Your Different™ Podcast

How do you carve out a counter-intuitive niche and be successful at it? On today’s episode, Vineet Jain joins us for a discussion about how he charted a path different from every other tech person’s. He also shares how it all paid off, ten years later.

Swimming Upstream to Grow

Vineet has built a business that has seen nine consecutive quarters of records. They did this against a landscape of massive competitors who at one time looked like they might really threaten Egnyte. And to achieve this, they had to niche down.

“Indeed, this company of ours has grown in the big shadow being cast by some of the players who had a lot more funding.” – Vineet Jain

Financing Against the Trend

Year over year, Egnyte had a compounded growth rate of 30-35% and wasn’t raising much money. It wasn’t until the fourth quarter of 2016 that their cash flow turned positive. But Vineet knew that this wasn’t enough to keep the company afloat.

In August of 2018, he pitched that they raised financing. This was despite the general trend that tech companies observed. Sure enough, Vineet’s confident promise was met, and Goldman Sacks came into the picture.

Divine Luck and Difference

Egnyte had a size disadvantage against other companies in their category. They had a little over 600 employees, so they had to figure out how to play to this asymmetry. Ultimately, they decided to focus on their product and the economics of customer acquisition.

“You cannot pick a fight with an enemy who has picked your weapon of choice.” – Vineet Jain

Even with how they tried to show how they were different, they didn’t escape being lumped with 100 other vendors. But the confluence of two factors helped them rise: the expansion of the category they belonged to and the adoption curve becoming mainstream. With a product that fit the market at an interesting period, they got higher demand.

To hear more about how Vineet worked to build Egnyte to reach its pre-eminence and raised a $75M-funding round, download and listen to the episode.


Vineet Jain is the CEO and co-founder of Egnyte.

Prior to Egnyte, Vineet founded and successfully built Valdero, a supply chain software solution provider, funded by KPCB, MDV and Trinity Ventures.

He has held a rich variety of senior operational positions at KPMG and Bechtel. He has 20 years of experience in building capital-efficient and nimble organizations. Vineet earned a BS in Engineering from Delhi College of Engineering and received an MBA from Santa Clara University.




We hope you enjoyed Vineet Jain on this episode of Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on iTunes!

024 Brand Activism: Christian Sarkar

Brand Activism: Christian Sarkar Follow Your Different™ Podcast

Why is it so hard for these companies to do what is right and fair? On today’s episode, activist Christian Sarkar joins us. He talks about brand activism and why business leaders need to embrace social causes beyond making money.

Uncontrollable Capitalism

Christian says that we have reached a point where the government can no longer control capitalism. There simply isn’t a set of rules to regulate it. This is peak irony, given how guard rails were put up to prevent a repeat of the Roaring Twenties and the Great Depression.

“We have created a culture of governance that is very weak and, by design, has no teeth.” – Christian Sarkar

We have the free market and companies have to play by set, agreed-upon norms. The problem, however, persists. Nobody is addressing the things that endanger not only the economy but the society at large.

Paying Attention to Society

Christian co-authored Brand Activism: From Purpose to Action with Philip Kotler. The book espouses brand activism, something that most companies forget about in their pursuit of capital gains. Capitalism doesn’t pay attention to society enough.

Everyone is so concerned about getting the stocks up, but nobody knows about the three major problems that even the government can’t solve. These include the environment, income inequality, and population control. Neglect these three altogether, and you spell the end of not just your business, but also of the world.

Adopting Brand Activism

It is certainly difficult to create a brand that can lobby for causes that could save the world one person at a time. They don’t teach you charity and social responsibility in a business school. Every time, it is all about maximizing shareholder value.

There are companies who appeal for government funds to protect themselves from the backlash of climate change. The catch is that they have highly contributed to it. It’s time that business leaders choose between stepping up or sitting by the window of this freight train in a collision course.

“This is the problem with market-driven capitalism—that’s just blindly following the pursuit of value extraction.” – Christian Sarkar

To hear more about progressive brand activism and its importance, download and listen to the episode.


Christian Sarkar is a Consultant, Author, Entrepreneur, Publisher, Artist, and Activist. With Philip Kotler, he co-authored (“The Father of Modern Marketing) of the bestseller “Brand Activism: From Purpose to Action”. He is also the editor of The Marketing Journal.


Amazon – Brand Activism: From Purpose to Action



We hope you enjoyed Christian Sarkar on this episode of Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on iTunes!

023 Sex & Intimacy w/ Allana Pratt

Sex & Intimacy w/ Allana Pratt Follow Your Different™ Podcast

How does an orgasm relate to the birth of a planet? Intimacy expert Allana Pratt joins us on this special episode. The podcaster slash author shares how she unlocked her sexuality, why sex is sacred, and why our sexual energy is key to a life lived happily.

From Nerdy to Naughty

Allana hadn’t always been the naughty, confident woman that she’s now known for. She started off as the nerdy, insecure girl who always felt out of place. Eventually, she hopped on her uncle’s 18-wheeler semi from British Columbia to Los Angeles to follow her dreams.

She moved to the States and has been a dancer since she was five, doing jazz, ballet, tap, and theater. And instead of taking over their family’s pharmacy, she moved to Tokyo. On her very first show, 19-year-old Allana had to wear a G-string and fishnet tights—something she has never done before.

Coming to Terms with Sexuality

She ought to have enjoyed the experience of her first Tokyo show. But at the time, she hadn’t figured out the sacredness of sexuality just yet. And neither did she own the power of her radiance.

“I believe that our sexual energy is life force energy.” – Allana Pratt

To Allana, a person’s sexual energy is the same energy that spins the planet, blossoms a flower, and creates the birth of a child. And the energy of an orgasm? It’s the very same energy that births a planet.

Beyond the Bedroom

At the core of it, sexual energy is as pure as everything else that makes the world what it is. It’s the root of existence itself within our bodies. When people learn to let go of all judgment to sexuality, they also learn to feel a lot more authentic and safe.

Many of Allana’s clients come to her with shame or guilt, thinking they’re weird or broken because of their sexual desires or the way they choose to have contact. This, she says, is the very reason why she loves to be that safe space for people. When people drop into their bodies and do the work to forgive themselves, there starts to be a buzz that will flow through all aspects of their day-to-day.

“Yes, sometimes the ‘deliciousness’ has a ‘bow chika bow wow’ energy, like a real sexual energy when we think of sensuality in the bedroom. But sometimes, this delicious energy is tenderness, care, healing, patience, listening.” – Allana Pratt

To hear about more on intimacy and relationships and what it means to have Queen Energy, download and listen to the episode.


Intimacy expert Allana Pratt inspires open-hearted living with delicious sass. Featured on CBS, TLC & FOX, this cum laude graduate of Columbia University is the author of 3 books. She’s a coach to celebrities and the host of the sexy empowering show “Intimate Conversations LIVE”.

After working with thousands of men and women who struggle to open their hearts again in the aftermath of a harsh breakup, Allana helps them learn how to date again and find lasting love.

She inspires women to embrace their sacred erotic nature to attract all the love and attention they can handle. She heals men’s emasculated hearts, cures their ‘nice guy’, and awakens their ‘noble badass’ so they can create hot, healthy intimate relationships.

Allana’s passionate devotion to helping men and women reclaim their joy, freedom and personal power is rooted in her own experience. Allana grew up insecure, ashamed of her body and afraid of men. She endured a brutal custody battle that threatened to compromise her joy, softness and feminine power.

Yet Allana sat in the fire embracing the experience as a spiritual teacher. She emerged more courageously vulnerable and radiantly loving than ever before.

Allana’s joy for life is contagious. She savors being a mother and pole dances for pleasure.

She challenges and inspires her clients to be unapologetically true to themselves and to bow in reverence to their exquisite spiritual and sexual nature.



Twitter – Intimacy Expert for Men



We hope you enjoyed Allana Pratt on this episode of Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on iTunes!

022 Legendary Marriage w/ Lance and Brandy Salazar

Legendary Marriage w/ Lance and Brandy Salazar Follow Your Different™ Podcast

On today’s special episode, we hear from a legendary married couple, Lance and Brandy Salazar. They co-authored Hal Elrod’s newest book, The Miracle Morning for Couples: Creating a legendary connection one morning at a time. They tell us about co-designing your life with your partner, coming back from the brink of divorce, and much more.

An Empty Sort of Happiness

Lance and Brandy’s married life was a lovely adventure before they had their kids. No one ever prepares enough for a life with young ones and that was when the kick-in happened for them. They had to provide for their growing family and keep “feeding the beast”.

With their priorities skewed, their mental fortitude deteriorated. They were overwhelmed and their marriage was falling apart. And the ultimate wake-up call to fix things was Brandy asking Lance to move out.

“We had all the great things that society told us apparently would buy us happiness or bring us happiness. And we had everything we needed and more… But our marriage sucked.” – Lance and Brandy Salazar

Defining Their Values

All these things led to a decision to design the life they wanted. In the process, they found out that they hadn’t defined their values. And so they sat down and mapped out all the things that they needed to achieve their dream life, and this included their home environment.

“It wasn’t until that designing part really came to fruition that we identified the fact that weren’t in the right town for us.” – Brandy Salazar

Having realized the environment as an important life aspect, it became a catalyst to define more of their values.

Byproducts of Life Design

Lance and Brandy realized the benefits of operating from a place where they knew their values and the things that bring them fulfillment and freedom. Once they defined the center of their world, everything else fell into place. And among these is their happy, healthier marriage.

To hear more about how Lance and Brandy created the relationship of their dreams, download and listen to the episode.


Lance and Brandy Salazar are on a mission to help couples reconnect with each other and stay deeply in love while raising their daughters. They created “Legendary Couples with Kids” because they know firsthand how challenging it is to keep your marriage a priority while juggling careers and being parents.

They now know that it is possible to be more in love than ever before. Their story is common, but their method is not.

Four short years ago, they were nearly divorced. Having kids abruptly deprioritized their marriage, and they lacked deep intimacy and connection. They were disconnected, frustrated, unhappy, and they knew they weren’t modeling the marriage they wanted for their girls.

At the point of calling it quits, they made one last effort to save their relationship. This time, they tried something new. They took the best and most effective tools used by successful business and health coaches with proven positive psychology methods and applied these concepts to their marriage.

They stayed consistent with their commitments and made their vision a reality within a few short months. After almost 14 years of marriage and almost being divorced, they were now experiencing a remarkable level of connection, intimacy, and fun in their relationship.

Their results were so effective that they applied the same method and principles to their family and brought their daughters along on this journey with them.

So, in 2017 they quit their 20-year careers, sold their ‘dream home’, began homeschooling their daughters and have dedicated their efforts to this mission; helping Couples with Kids everywhere create the most amazing and Legendary relationships possible!




We hope you enjoyed Lance and Brandy Salazar on this episode of Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on iTunes!

021 Q&A with Lochhead

Q&A with Lochhead Follow Your Different™ Podcast

How do you know when to quit? Is there still a place for creative minds in the marketing industry? On today’s Q&A with Lochhead, Christopher answers these two questions sent by his listeners.

Category Leaders’ Share

Should you quit a company that’s starting to fail at the category king game? In writing Play Bigger, Christopher and his co-authors conducted a research project where they analyzed every venture-backed company found in Silicon Valley from 2000-2015. They tracked how these companies grew in value.

They looked into the data for an answer to an important question. What percentage of the market cap goes to the category leader? It turned out that the number was a whopping 76%.

Winner Takes All

In businesses today, there exists a winner takes all game. And you would want to be part of that company. It’s a bitter pill to swallow.

We learn so much by winning. There is also the halo effect that comes from being part of a legendary team, and these halos last forever. Christopher would know.

“The minute that you think your company can’t win the category king or queen game in your space, that’s when you need to start looking.” – Christopher Lochhead

When considering companies, you must also ask yourself these important questions: Can this company do product, company, and category design right? And can you make a contribution to that?

Creativity in Marketing

How about people who want to live off creative work in marketing? Is creativity still a fundamental asset in this landscape?

In business today, data and technicals are becoming increasingly important. Even so, creativity still comprises half the work in marketing, especially concerning new skills that companies require in new CMOs.

“Category design is now the number one skill that CEOs are looking for when they are recruiting new CMOs.” – Christopher Lochhead

To hear more about the role of creativity in the marketing landscape, download the listen to the episode.


Harvard Business Review Article – How Unicorns Grow

We hope you enjoyed this Q&A with Lochhead episode of Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on iTunes!

020 Conversational Marketing, Category Design & More w/ David Cancel

Conversational Marketing, Category Design & More w/ David Cancel Follow Your Different™ Podcast

Why is it even more important now to focus on customers? Today, David Cancel joins his friend Christopher to talk about personal brands and authenticity. They also have an insightful discussion about designing a new category of conversational marketing.

Reputation Before Personal Brand

Everybody seems to be scrambling to become influencers these days. But too often, people fall for the false promises of contrived personal branding. They need to learn the distinction between a personal brand and reputation.

“A reputation starts with ‘carrying the water’, doing the work, producing the results… Becoming a person of substance that can be relied upon to produce results.” – Christopher Lochhead

With a reputation, people would turn to you and know you for your personal brand. But first, you need to have done something repeatedly you will be known for. And only then can you be authentic.

“You wanna learn from the athlete, you wanna learn from the entrepreneur, you wanna learn from whoever that has repeatedly done something—not that they did something one time.” – David Cancel

Big Changes, Infinite Supply

David built Drift with the idea that people have been taught to do certain things that no longer exist. He also had a career centered around the idea that companies have all the control over their offers.

But this setup has become obsolete with the infinite supply of everything in every category. In effect, the customer has a lot more options.

Designing a New Category

After reading Play Bigger, David realized the importance of category design in linking their company’s vision and desired results. They needed to drive back to people and customers. And so they designed a category around conversational marketing.

They aim to espouse the strategy of making customers feel special while delivering what they wanted.

“This is the larger change that we believe is gonna happen in the world, where the customer has control.” – David Cancel

To hear more about conversational marketing, chatbots, and category design from David, download and listen to the episode.


David Cancel is a serial entrepreneur, podcast host (Seeking Wisdom) and angel investor/advisor. He created hypergrowth companies, products and product teams at companies such as, HubSpot, Performable, Ghostery and Compete.

David has been featured by media outlets such as The New York Times, Forbes, Fortune, Wired and Fast Company. David has also guest lectured on entrepreneurship at Harvard, Harvard Business School, MIT, MIT’s Sloan School of Management, Bentley and other Universities.

His popular blog has been read by 1M+ entrepreneurs, and his Twitter account @dcancel has 180k followers and is considered a “Must-Follow” account for entrepreneurs, executives, and product people.




Website – Seeking Wisdom Podcast

iTunes – Seeking Wisdom Podcast

Amazon – Conversational Marketing

We hope you enjoyed David Cancel on this episode of Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and subscribe on iTunes!